The Trash Compactor
(July 1999)
| The release of Star Wars Episode I: The Phantom Menace sure sparked a lot of topics for discussion. This month, we have three subjects that the SWFA debated about at length. |
Bob Lippman: I've Been thinking, Qui-Gon is a lot more "activist" than any of the council members. He "doesn't follow the jedi code" on plenty of matters. He is quick to use mind control or alter a die roll to "cheat" to accomplish his mission, etc. While all this is probably a bad thing in most cases, in the present situation, of all the Jedi who could have uncovered Palpatine's true motives, Qui-Gon seems the most likely. This makes his death all the more tragic.
Another thought - why does the Jedi Council
fear the
one who will bring balance to the force? Simple - with the way things
are right now there is a Jedi Council, a democratic galactic senate,
and dozens (hundreds?) of Jedi knights guarding peace and justice
throughout the galaxy vs. one or two Sith. Any imbalance is clearly on
the side of good. Balance would mean making evil equal with good. Who
wants that?
Gary Tucker: I took the fact that Anakin would bring balance to the force to mean that he would be the one to eventually rid the galaxy of it's greatest evil....Palpatine. Anakin is the one who kills him after all.
Bob Lippman: This is an interesting interpretation. To me, balance implies an equal measure of dark and light. I wonder whether the Jedi council considers the force to be currently 'out of balance', and if so, what does this really mean?
Jason Presley Well if that's the case, I'd think the Council would go out of their way to see that Anakin wasn't trained and that he got stuck in some obscure, remote part ofthe Galaxy. Since the Sith had supposedly been extinct for over a millenia, the Jedi were most likely tipping the scaled in the light side's favor. Balance would imply that Anakin would become a great power for the Dark Side, which he did.
Bob Lippman: That's my point exactly. There are a couple possibilities as I see it:
1) the Jedi sense Palpatine/Sidious even though they can't identify him (difficult to see is the dark side), and as a result they are generally aware that the dark side is gaining strength over the light and the need to set things back on the path of goodness;
2) the dark side and the light side are out of balance in a more general way: a general lack of compassion (Anakin to Shmi "you are always saying that the problem with the galaxy is that no one helps anyone else out") vs. most people enslaved by greed, hate and fear. Under this theory, the one who will bring balance to the force will be a spiritual leader (the Christ analogy again) casing a shift in the way people think;
3) the Jedi Council knows that the light side is too strong and that this can't continue forever so they seek (or shun) the one who will bring balance. Either the Jedi will willingly and knowingly sacrifice their 'thousand year reign' as guardians of peace and justice, or they will deny Anakin training, selfishly guarding their monopoly; or, finally,
4) all the prophecy really means is that evil will inevitably rise up but eventually be destroyed by its apprentice, Vader.
The last one is the simplest, and we all know that it is the way things will go, but I suspect that the first 3 explanations make a lot more sense to Qui Gon's contemporaries.
Jason Presley: Along this train of thought, if the Jedi Council thought to train Anakin to be a good, honorable Jedi, you'd think Yoda or one of the Council members would've trained him personally to ensure his proper training and maturing. And either way....WHY have Obi-Wan train him? Obi-Was JUST became a knight, and would in no way be ready to take on a student by himself.
Bob Lippman: I agree with this. Who is the more reckless, the reckless one, or the one who sets him free to do as he will? (shades of "who is the more foolish, the fool or the fool that follows him?")
Gary Tucker: Maybe Obi-wan training him was a matter of honor. He proimsed Qui-Gon that he would train him. The way I see it Palpatine would have risen to control of the galaxy as Emperor and exterminated the Jedi whether Anakin was his apprentice or it was some other Sith Lord. It just happened that Anakin was the one who would end up killing him and ending his reign (bringing balance to the force.)
Pablo Hidalgo: Jean-Pierre Lavoignat from Studio magazine published the following, which sheds some light on the whole 'balance of the Force' thing: http://perso.club-internet.fr/willow/E1_009_001.html
"During his visit and staying at Skywalker Ranch, Jean-Pierre Lavoignat did an exclusive one to one interview with Lucas himself.
During his interview Lucas talks about the person who will bring balance to the force. Lucas says that this notion that Qui-Gon makes a mistake about Anakin being the person who will bring balance to the force and instead it's Luke who does that, IS wrong.
He discusses that it is indeed Anakin Skywalker who brings the balance to the force. Anakin does this because of his son, Luke. It's because of his son that he finds the good in himself again and it is ANAKIN who kills the emperor and brings the balance, not Luke.
At the end, Lucas adds that Anakin is the ONLY person who could do that, because he is the only one who had enough power and was close enough to the emperor to destroy him."
Gary Tucker: So I was right all along about the "bringing balance to the Force" deal.
Bob Lippman: Yes, and my suggestion that the Jedi Counsel reject Anakin because, in their view, the force is already balanced in their favor, still seems plausible, yes?
Abel Pena: I think Jeff raised an issue about Vader not sensing Obi-wan on Tatooine. I think there are tons of things that show why this doesn't need to necessarily be the case, but someone brought up the idea that there might have been a dark side nexus at Obi-Wan's hut, which in fact there was according to SW: RPG 1st ed., if I remember correctly.
GhentZ: Can anybody confirm this? I don't
have a copy and only vaguely remember that cool book.
Pablo Hidalgo: An adventure outline entitled 'Jedi Heirloom' places a force-nexus beneath Obi-Wan's hut, but the adventure is pretty obscure, and not fleshed out, and can be treated as just a 'suggestion' and not necessarily as fact.
Still a cool idea, though.
GhentZ: I think that Obi-Wan's purported Force inactivity might have been enough to hide him, as well as being relatively distant from Vader and his ship. Of course, then we can bring up the whole idea about Vader not sensing Leia's Force potential while she's right in front of him. I'm imagining a really cool scene in Ep III in which Obi-Wan and Yoda do blood tests on the twins and find that Luke has a higher concentration of the little critters than Leia, which is why he's the first choice in trying to bring down Vader.
Jeff Boivin: A friend pointed out to me that at the end of TPM, when Palpy lands on Naboo,the whole Jedi Council is present. If Palpy WAS Sidious, somebody would sense him! This supports Rich's (I think) theory of Palpy being a clone of Sidious, which Sidious helps rise to the role of Supreme Chancellor so he can take over.
Abel Pena: The Jedi Council thing is absolutely correct. And I go for the "Palp-ain't-Sidious" theory too. Futher support: Amidala tells Senator Palpatine she's going back to Naboo. But when the Neimrods get word and tell Sidious, he says something like "this is an unexpected move."
Bob Lippman: Palpatine surely wants to keep his true identity a secret from the Nemoidians, especially as he knows that in all likelihood their blockade will fail and their federation will crumble. He is merely sacrificing them. No need to give them too much information, lest they turn him in when they fall. Far better to create an alter-ego, i.e., Darth Sidious, to keep his true identity a secret from his cohorts. Even Darth Maul may have had no idea who he was ultimately working for.
GhentZ: This never occurred to me (the creation of an alter ego to throw the Neimoidians and anyone tapping into the communications off the trail), but it makes perfect sense and is a scheme worthy of good ole Palpy.
Bob Lippman: On that same thread - it seems that the Nemoidians will be of SOME use to the Jedi and the Senate, especially on the subject of Maul. I wonder how Palpy plans to keep them from talking? I have been analyzing the t.v. trailers as I catch them. They really add a lot to the understanding of what makes the characters in the movie tick. Each monologue, which as far as I can tell is made up of dialog not found in the movie, adds a layer of richness to the characters that many critics found lacking in the movie itself. A pity that this couldn't be woven into the movie proper.
GhentZ: Yeah, these can be downloaded from the video section at starwars.com. The monologues are called "tone poems." I found the inflection on Jake's to have been a bit overdone. The music they used in Qui-Gon's was absolutely breath-taking. This was the cue used when Anakin first turned on his Podracer engines after Jar Jar's hand is freed -- was this on the soundtrack?! If it wasn't it belongs on the second volume.
Bob Lippman: Yes, as well as Darth Vader's breathing at the end of the finale.
GhentZ: I should hope that these character-specific commercials have been put on the INSIDER'S GUIDE TO EPISODE ONE CD-ROM, but considering BtM's track record (sorry Mr. Blackman) I think that's hoping too for too much. What can we expect on that title anyway? I read the press release and it wasn't too informative or very specific. Will there be sound and movie clips? Screen tests? The screenshots in the DMK99 would appear to indicate that only the two theatrical trailers are on this two CD-ROM set.
Bob Lippman: Sorry to say, I just ran the CD Insider's guide (got it with the Phantom Menace game) and the TV trailers are not on there. Not only that, but the audio is rapping on my Pentium 300. Just what kind of processor do you need to run these audio/video tracks cleanly?
GhentZ: I noticed that the 8th screenshot on the site has the intro page to Maul's bio and it says that his species and homeworld are unknown. This is what I was afraid of. The TPM VISUAL DICTIONARY (which is now out, I guess) supposedly gives his species as Zabrak and his homeplanet as Iridonia. I hope this stuff makes it into the SWEI-IG . . .
Bob Lippman: Anyway, back to the Sidious/Paplatine thread, in the Darth Maul trailer "Fear is my ally...fear attracts the fearful (Nemiodians), the strong (Jedi, Amidala), the weak (Jar-Jar)..." I notice that they show Palpatine when Maul says "fear attracts the devious." This strongly reinforces the belief that Palpatine is devious, and is Sidious, even though he is not shown doing one single bad act in the whole movie.
GhentZ: Um, Maul says "the corrupt" not "the devious" unless more than one version of this commercial exists (which I think was indicated somewhere). In the version on the website, he says "corrupt" when Palpy is shown.
Bob Lippman: Devious/corrupt...hey, I only saw it once. My memory is a bit off from too many memory wipes, I guess. Then there is the other question raised by this trailer - is Palpatine attracted to Maul, or is it the other way around?
GhentZ: Um, I hope that was tongue-in-cheek,
or I'm gonna have to slap you.
Bob Lippman: No no, I mearly mean that Maul is saying that the corrupt have use of those who can inspire fear. Palpatine/Sidious is attracted to Maul because he knows that he can use him.
Drew Campbell: No offense to anyone on the list, but don't you think that Sid/Pal cloning is a bit twinky? It's obvious that they're one and the same... There's no reason that Palpy couldn't hide himself. And as Yoda says "Difficult to detect is the Dark Side".
GhentZ: ROTFL, love the word choice there. I really do think it would be a major cop out if Palpy was a clone. Sure, he'd still be giving us those evil grins and making funny comments about Skywalker's career if he were working for Sidious, but honestly, that would be like.
Drew Campbell: Thank you!
Jeff Boivin: Another point: The ANH novel ("Journal of the Whills") says Palpy ascended to *President* of the Republic. Did he create a new position for himself? Or is it just a synonym? He's so devious.
Drew Campbell: Supreme Chancellor/President... Same thing. I suspect Lucas went with Chancellor to make us NOT think of a US President.
GhentZ: I'll second that. No reason why he couldn't change the title. Unless . . . we're still behind the events of the Prologue of the ANH novelization. I recall *some* source placing the events of the Prologue at at 20+ years before ANH, but not 32y before. Oh well. Read the fourth paragraph of the Prologue (heck, read the whole thing) and you'll see Palpy's whole role outlined in broad strokes, right down to his using "the massive organs of commerce" to get himself elected. What bugs me is the fifth paragraph, about the Emperor becoming isolated from the public and controlled by the people he himself appoints to various positions. Could our dear Sate Pestage appear in Eps II or III? What was his official title, Grand Vizier? The isolation part is not a big deal, that's to be expected. But he comes to be controlled by his own people, say Tarkin or Vader? This is really getting confusing. Seems like there really is no true evil in the galaxy . . . Vader turns out to be a good guy by the end of RotJ, now it appears that Palpy also had a bad childhood or simply fell in with the wrong people. OR one of the people he appoints is some guy named Darth Sidious and he really is the grey eminence who was behind everything, like Rich suggests.\ So, I guess I'm undecided at this point. After thinking that part through, I like the clone idea a bit more, but again, the clone thing has been beaten to death. It remains to be seen if Lucas can reinvent it and tell the story of the Clone Wars in a manner nobody expects.
Drew Campbell: Alright... Here's a thought I had... The Trade Fed looses its charter due to the Naboo fiasco, fast forward several years (Ten?) and they've figured out that their cheap droid army isn't worth crap, hence they find a new way to make cheap armies... CLONES.
GhentZ: I think that's pretty much the idea everybody's had, except for the part about the Trade Fed being the one who come up with cloning. I would hope that they don't come back in Eps II and III and we've got to bring in the Mandalorians sometime. Lucas has said that Fett (though I'm really certain he means Mandalorians in general and not Fett in particular) will be in Ep II, and it does take place ten years after TPM. I think McCallum was a source on that.
Dan Wallace:
Just mentally working my way
through a Palpatine conundrum.
All of the following assume that Palpatine and Sidious are the same person (I'm not even bothering to tackle alternate theories at this point):
Sidious wants Amidala captured, the Jedi murdered, and Amidala to sign a treaty legitimizing the Federation invasion. Yet it seems as if this is the *last* thing Palpatine would want. I can see his desire to knock off a couple Jedi when the situation presents itself (he sees them as a long-term threat to his plans), but the whole Senate sequence practically *requires* that Amidala be there in person. Without her presence, no one in the Senate would know of the invasion at all (thus denying Palpatine his "sympathy vote") and most importantly, the easily-manipulated Amidala wouldn't be able to lodge the petition of no-confidence. I suppose Palpatine could have done it himself, but that type of blatant self-promotion would almost certainly have denied him the sympathy vote he needed to be elected Chancellor.
GhentZ: Right, glad to see all of our
influences showing up in one place.
Dan Wallace: Second, after the petition has been lodged, why is he still adamant that Amidala sign the treaty? Why "wipe them out, all of them?" The two Jedi I understand, but why the rest of the military action? If the Federation had won, would Chancellor Palpatine have let them keep Naboo? After all, they've got a treaty.
GhentZ: After the petition is lodged, who is still adamant that Amidala sign the treaty? Palpy? Why sure, because he's got to pretend that he doesn't know that it is no longer necessary for his immediate success. As I recall, he's worried that they'll make her sign the treaty if she returns, so I don't see him as wanting her to do so. Kind of a switch from "we'll have to accept Federation control" isn't it? Sid wants everybody involved to be wiped out (Jedi, the Queen, the Naboo guards, etc.), not necessarily the entire planet, though I will concede that that is open to interpretation. The rest of the military action is fairly simple to explain (at least to a simple-minded guy like me). Sid orders the Neimoidians to do exactly what they wished to do so in the first place: take over Naboo by force. He's basically setting them up for the fall. If the brain-dead guys succeed, he's elected Chancellor and begins a crusade to free Naboo. If they fail to take control of Naboo, fine, he's still elected Chancellor and the Viceroy and his buds go to face a war crimes tribunal (sorry, this Kosovo thing is just too pertinent to ignore here).
So Palpy would not have let them keep Naboo because it would make him look even better if he fought to free Naboo. And no, they would not have had a treaty with the Neims... if Amidala had signed it, it would obviously have been under duress and even so have been illegal. Who ever heard of a planet's ruler just handing over her planet to a bunch of invaders who had no business being there? Sure, it may have been for the common good (or at least to protect the lives of the innocent), but the Republic's Senate and Courts need not have taken a close look to see that it was a total setup. Treaties usually have to be ratified by all interested parties in order to make them legal (ie Versailles was never ratified by the US Congress). They still go into effect (ie nobody gives a Palpy poop what the US thinks), but with decreased legitimacy. Which brings up the most important part of this whole thing: legitimacy. That's one of the foundations of governmental power and something the Neims lacked vis a vis Naboo. Ergo, they have no right to be there, regardless of what treaties are signed.
Dan Wallace: I've thought that perhaps Palpatine *intended* for the Queen to escape and reach Coruscant, knowing that the Neimoidians were morons, but that seems a poorly thought-out strategy and it begs the question of why he would send Maul after the group on Tatooine.
GhentZ: I don't think that it's plausible that
Palpy actually set it up that way. Unless you're like me and believe
Palpy is the puppetmaster here. But let me play devil's advocate for a
moment and say that he's not. How would he have known that the Queen
could and would escape? Just the Sith power? Fine. That's not the same
as intending for her to escape, is it . . . He definitely knows the
Neims are idiots, but they're a great tool, so he's got to work with
them, or at least boss them around via hologram. "Viceroy, where are my
tea and crumpets?" Sending Maul to Tatooine is a weird one. Deal with
the Jedi at the very least, and then show the rest of his tattoed body
to force Amidala to sign the treaty.
Mark Hudson: I'm with you guys on this one. I hope the Clone Wars are a backdrop, not a plot device.
Here's my take on Palpatine's plot: Palpatine's goal in The Phantom Menace is to get elected Supreme Chancellor and begin consolidating power, politically and militarily. The Trade Federation are idiots and he knows it, and I bet they were patsies from day one. Palpatine's concern, however, is that Amidala and those pesky Jedi will take care of the problem without his "help."
If all had gone according to plan, the Queen would've signed the treaty and the Trade Feds would've proudly announced their new conquest/deal/excise tax or whatever with Naboo. In the Senate, Palpatine justly declares that the treaty could've only been signed under duress and demands the Senate do something about it. The bureaucracy cripples Chancellor Valorum, and Palpatine calls for a vote of no confidence which is seen not as a grab for power, but an attempt to free his world from Federation duress. Thus Palpatine is elected Supreme Chancellor. With the Feds on Naboo, Palpatine has an excuse to exercise war powers to free his world (and probably "accidentally" kill the Queen in the process), even after the victory, Chancellor Palpatine declares the threat is not over and continues to use the Republic Military to enforce order. From there it's only a few steps to galactic domination.
But once the Jedi start mucking about, Palpatine gets worried that they and the Queen might take care of the Feds before he can get elected Chancellor. Even after Amidala calls for the no confidence vote, Palpatine needs to maintain the illusion that the Trade Federation is a dangerous threat to Naboo's sovereignty. If the Feds capture or kill the Queen, his plan can continue. If the Jedi get to the Neimoidians, then the existence of Sidious and the Sith might be revealed to the Jedi Council and Palpatine's not ready for that yet. Sidious orders the Feds to wipe them out, because the more damage they cause, the greater justification Palpatine can claim when invoking war powers.
Thanks how I see it anyway.
Pablo Hidalgo: I just wanted to address this because I suspect some of us fanboys may be perturbed by the casual mention of a cloaking device in the prequel-era.
The Queen's ship could have conceivably carried one (it didn't, but that didn't stop the Jedi from asking), and Maul's ship does carry one.
So, why are cloaks so coveted in the Empire and New Republic-era?
Well, to borrow from Star Trek, I say use the 'evolving technology' defense.
Established Trek lore had it that a cloaked vessel could not fire. It was this lore that continued onto the 24th-century adventures of the Next Generation series.
However, Star Trek VI had a Klingon ship that could fire while cloaked. So, does this mean that the TNG-era stance on cloaks was wrong? Hardly. Cloaks are only effective if they baffle sensors, and with sensor technology increasing all the time, it's logical that TNG-era sensors rendered ST IV-era cloaks obsolete.
So, long story short, Classic-era sensors rendered prequel-era cloaks obsolete. What the Empire so desperately wants in the Zahn series is a perfected Classic-era cloak. This works well with Needa's line "A ship this small can't have a cloaking device!", considering the Falcon's about the same size as the Infiltrator and the Royal Ship. To elaborate on his line: "A ship that small can't have a modern cloaking device... but it could have carried those outdated useless models that ships had 30 years ago..."